President Obama is supposed to announce a freeze on discretionary spending tonight. Big fucking deal. That takes no courage. That requires no special knowlege or insight of the budgetary process. It does nothing but add to the deficit and crumbling infrastructure problems in the long run. Worst of all, at least to this partisan Democrat, it's a pander to the tea bagging, right wing fear mongering assholes that run the republican party.
Most every state in the Union is undergoing huge budget deficits. My home state of Illinois is one of the worst. The righties and the mindless independents and lefties are blaming the problem on unfunded pension obligations. They also blame the unions but it was the state legislatures that decided these obligations and then decided not to fund them. The pansy ass pieces of shit thought it better to borrow from their pension funds than tell citizens the freaking truth we all understand. Shit costs more. We need more to provide the services the public wants from government. But they were all too big a flock of pussies to do this. They continued to not fund and borrow. They said look at how wonderful we are. We didn't raise taxes. Vote for me. The pansy ass, iresponsible assholes have led not just Illinois, but just about every state in our Nation to financial ruin due to their idiocy.
This ignorance has led to governors all over making stupid decisions. Most of them have secret programs to release prisoners early. Shit. In Illinois the governor was letting violent creeps after two months. Sure as shit a few of them committed violent crimes. Now it will probably cost him the primary. Just like it cost Dukakis.
There is a price for every spending cut. Sure. It gives a politico a chance to go before a bunch of deluded tea bagging fools and say "Look at what I did. I saved taxpayers money." The money is really a drop of piss in the ocean but hell, these guys are heroes. Right? Fuck no!
When my former governor, Rod the most useless prick this side of Limp City, ordered all the other office holders to cut their bidgets 10%, most of them fell all over themselves to suck up to him. Our Comptroller, Dan Hynes, dutifully cut his and stood with Blago getting his pat on the back for fiscal responsiblity. Unfortunately for Dan, his department was responsible for overseeing cemetaries in our state. Guess what. Budget cuts meant not enough inspectors which meant a cemetary be Chicago, and God knows how many others, was digging up bodies and reselling the plots to new "customers." All because this pansy ass clown had to suck up to Blago and the right wing, anti tax crowd. Hynes is running against Quinn in the primary. I think he will win because what Quinn did with releasing freaking criminals will look less bad to primary voters than crooked cemetary operators but it doesn't matter because Hynes will lose the general election due to his shitheaded budget cut.
Obama is from Illinois and has or will learn nothing from this. He seems to have forgotten why he was elected. For hope and change. Not a continuation of republican bullshit.
At this moment, I have zero clue why republicans hate Obama. He's the best president they've had since... George W. Bush.
58 comments:
The system is broken my friend. It is broken.
So, the question must be asked.
Is it too late?
Can our country, and society be brought into the New Era ?, or are we doomed as a country, society, and a species.
Our stubborness and arrogance as a people will keep us around a long time RZ. Look at France. They've been in decline since Napoleon and they still think they're important. If it wasn't for the food nobody would give a shit about them.
WE have Taco Belle. That should keep us at least tied with the French.
The beast in nature always learns to adapt.
We, on the other hand, want everyone else to be like us. This was the Neocon mind set. Their belief that the West is at the pinnacle of human society.
Unfortunately many of our youth will be joining the military, or entering the University of Taco Bell.
Yes indeedy. Will the real Obama please stand up??? He's changing faster than a chameleon in front of an HDTV!! This isn't very popular with even Democrats now but I think we should let the Bush tax cuts expire. As well as jack up the rate on the top 1% on TOP of that.
During the boom of the middle-class from the late 30's up to Reagan, the tax rate for the uber-rich was between 70-90%. That was maintained by even Eisenhower!! Who, by the way would be a liberal today.
Tax 'em!! I'm tired of this trickle-down supply side b.s. we've been swallowing since Reagan. Go back at look at the tax rate during the boom of the middle-class. It tells us where we should go today.
he just grins knowing that in this case he does not need to counter any argument presented so far.
Great rant and it's true all of it.
To see Obama and the others out there move their lips is getting to be such old shit because they are phrasing most of what they say with corporations in mind. We're sliding further into the shitter everyday and yes I do believe it is probably beyond repair. Congress are the only ones that can fix it and ------
and---ROFLMAO.
Sharpen up those pitchforks.
Ahh the rant. Everybody should feel better now and have a Taco.
Class warfare has been around a long time and it continues.
I actually applaud Obama for considering a spending freeze. If it is directed at the pork coming out of Washington. Businesses control spending and so should government.
And another thing if you take 100% of the money the wealthy posses it won't mean a piss hole in the snow with respect to anything. Just make a few misguided zealots feel good about "soaking the rich."
We had this discussion a while back, I think it was with you Truth, or perhaps it was TAO, no matter. I am an independent conservative that believe in spending cuts and control first. Then when the economy turns around and unemployment is at 4 or 5 percent then raise taxes to PAY DOWN THE DEBT AND REDUCE OUR DEFICITS.
When that is accomplished, if it ever is, we can talk about...
the rest of the story.
I won't be holding my breath.
Another thing, I voted for Bush. Kinda sorry I did as he was no conservative. At least not in a fiscal sense, and his interventionism in Iraq was ill advised.
Oh, just a thought. The points made at Truth 101 in the posts deserve consideration. I just fail to see were the vulgar language strengthens the argument or serves any rational purpose for that matter.
Just a thoughts of one.
When I want it to stick I give it to em loud and dirty. Just like General Patton.
Here in Georgia, like Illinois, cut services, still a deficit, cut some more, still a deficit. It is not possible to save your way out of a recession and if there are more cuts and freezes, make that depression.
To everyone who wants to cut govt spending and balance the budget,with all due respect-where are the dollars going to come from to run our economy?
The private sector is deeply in debt, saving and trying to repair their balance sheets.Households are trying to save and pay down debt.
We have a trade imbalance.Net dollar outflow.The foreign sector is out.
How else are we going to fund aggregate demand ? we have too much supply, little demand so wages and prices drop and people are losing their jobs.
The ONLY sector of our economy capable of injecting dollars into the economy is the govt.
Balancing the budget is the biggest mistake we can make right now. We have two choices-defict spend or go live in tents.
Truth you're absolutely right in your post, I agree 100%.Here in Calif they've done the same thing for years. Prop 13 mandated a 2/3 majority to raise taxes. Nobody will campaign on raising taxes. So we issue bonds then more bonds to pay the debt on the previous bonds then keep rolling them over.
What used to be the best educational system in the nation is now a ruin. like your state we throw scumbag prisoners back onto the streets to meet budget cuts.
The states,I guess they need to be funded in order to save them from themselves.I don't know man.
Typical,
A Republican would say, "cut spending first" then once the economy improves raise taxes...
Wants to talk about wasteful government spending....
First off the most waste occurs in Agriculture and Defense spending...
No Republican is going to touch those two are they?
No, Republicans want to go after spending for the poor...which is the discretionary spending.
Which basically saves us 245 billion a year at best!
Which is never going to get you to a balanced budget....
Then of course you have social security and medicare....go on and try to cut something out of those two programs.....
The only way you are going to get real cuts is if you also put tax increases on the table.
If you don't agree to cut something then tax increases...its real simple: If you can't agree to cut spending then you have to agree to pay for something.
One without the other will not accomplish a thing....
Right now government spending is propping up the economy....whether it is wasteful or not really doesn't make a difference its money entering our economy as consumers and corporations are paying down debt the government money is what is driving what economic activity we do have....
Right Rational? Now, if you want to truly balance the budget then go ahead and put your tax increases on the table and the liberals can put their spending on the table...
Oso,
"The ONLY sector of our economy capable of injecting dollars into the economy is the govt."
the only thing that injecting more dollars into the economy does is deflate the dollars already in the economy.
if you are using the term dollars as a synonym for money then the only money that government can inject into the economy is the money that is produced by the private sector in the form of profits.
and if you are speaking of the injection of money in terms of a bailout then tax cuts will achieve the same purpose but at a lesser cost to the taxpayer.
and if you want to raise taxes then raise them on those who work for the government first. that will allow a greater amount of money to remain in the treasury and not take it out of the private sector where it is needed most at this time.
Tao,
"A Republican would say, "cut spending first" then once the economy improves raise taxes..."
now that you have said what a Republican would say, would you reveal to us what a Democrat would say?
Griper....
Actually the government can print money....
So....they are not really taking money from the private sector....
A democrat did put it on the table today both spending and taxes along with a bi partisan committee....and the senate blew that proposal out of the water...
Still not sure why that bill needed a supermajority...
Why is it whenever there is a democrat in the white house a majority becomes 60 votes but when a republican is in the white house a majority is only 50 votes?
Griper,
I'll repeat-where is demand going to come from if not from public spending?
we're already in deflation-how do you figure stimulating demand by public spending lowers the value of the dollar?
I've said nothing about raising taxes.You're making an assumption.
We do not need an inflow to the treasury of dollars from the private sector,that's not how a govt spends.Treasury credits a private sector account. that's how dollars enter the economy.treasury debits an account.that's how taxes are collected.
Oso,
"I'll repeat-where is demand going to come from if not from public spending?"
from a greater increase of supply.
spending is always the demand side of economics. so, when the government infuses money into the system it is only adds to the demand that already exists.
production is the supply side of economics.
and you are right, you never said anything about tax increases. i was just addressing some other comment on it but forgot to address him directly. my fault.
Tao,
the government does not print money. it prints dollar bills in different denominations.
there is a difference in the terms money and dollar bills.
So, Griper..."I'll repeat-where is demand going to come from if not from public spending?"
from a greater increase of supply.
spending is always the demand side of economics. so, when the government infuses money into the system it is only adds to the demand that already exists.
create more supply"
So, you are saying that the reason we are in a recession is because we do not have enough supply of goods?
The reason people are not purchasing is because the store shelves are empty?
Or are you attempting to say that the reason jobs are not being created is because it is not profitable for supply to create jobs? So by giving supply tax cuts we are enticing them to create jobs...
Not real sure where you work but in my company I don't have a whole lot of folks sitting around doing nothing.
I hire people when there is a need for them and I lay off people when there is nothing for them to do.
Thus my labor is determined by production, my production is determined by sales, and my sales are determined by demand.
Would I go out of business if I was not profitable? Sure!
But tax cuts are only temporary fixes....demand and management will determine my profitability from a long term perspective.
We need to give up on the short term benefits of tax cuts and focus on long term solutions....
Tao,
i'm saying that the supply out there is more expensive than demands allows. you know as well as i do,, the greater the supply the cheaper the product becomes. that is the basis of mass production and the assembly line that Ford introduced. that is seen in bulk buying also.
the housing industry is showing us that now.
and when prices gets low enough demand will creep up again. and when demand is greater than supply then production creeps up with it.
as for my statement on lower taxes that was to address the idea of bailouts being used. it serves the same purpose but at lesser cost to the taxpayer.
reason: the government can never give out as much as it takes in because it has expenses also in regards to the money it takes in, just as a business or charity has. tax cuts lessens that expense.
another reason for tax cuts rather then bailouts is that a businessman can plan ahead better thus do what is necessary to create demand where he cannot with bailouts until after he knows for sure how much of a bailout he will get.
another reason for tax cuts is that it affects the whole industry where bailouts only affect particular business that are privileged to receive it.
a good businessman will always prefer a tax cut rather than a bailout. there are no strings attached to tax cuts as there can be to bailouts.
Right now government spending is propping up the economy....whether it is wasteful or not really doesn't make a difference its money entering our economy as consumers and corporations are paying down debt the government money is what is driving what economic activity we do have.
Well said.
Yes TAO, it is putting money into the economy at essentially a devalued rate. How did that work out for the Wiemar Republic?
Not important, we can't recreate the past and most don't chose to learn from history anyway.
I would place service sector subsidies, on the table as well as some military and agricultural to boot.
Now it is your turn.
Griper...
The idea that tax cuts are cheaper because the government can never give out more than it takes in is wrong...
Companies can and do carry over tax breaks and or losses from one year to the next. If I lose money this year I can amend prior year taxes to use my current year loss against or I can save my extra losses from this year and apply it against profits in the future...its called NET OPERATING LOSS (Or NOL). Unlike individual taxes where once you get to zero in a year that is as far as you go...the taxation of corporations is totally different.
I can make a huge profit this year and not pay any taxes because I can go off and use losses from a prior year or I can go buy a company that has an NOL and use that for my company.
Consumers are not buying because they have way too much debt and rather than consuming they are saving and or paying down their debt load.
That is not a bad thing....but the reason everyone watches the measurement of consumer confidenece is because consumer mood has a lot to do with whether they shop or not....if consumers believe their jobs are safe and the economy is good then they shop....
Otherwise they save or pay down their debt.
This belief that somehow taxes will solve everything is absurd. The belief that low taxes will make government smaller is absurd.
The bailouts where necessary to get money in the financial system because banks had frozen everything. They had stopped lending and transferring money.
It is still an issue today because banks have a lot of homes on their balance sheets at values that are absurd. You can look real rich and real successful when you over value your assets.
That is exactly the situation we find ourselves in today. Everyone has been playing games with numbers and it jumped up and bit us in the ass.
Until sanity returns to our economy, until we get a little inflation in areas of our economy other than health and energy then we will not see any growth and our economy will continue to downgrade its self until supply falls below demand.
People should only buy things they need but for so long we believed that people would mass consume if prices were low enough...that is why we have the debt issue that we have today.
I have a competitor who is selling his shirts for more than half off what I sell mine for....he is dumping his shirts at a loss. Retailers could sell his shirts for 9.00 and mine for 19.00 and mine will still outsell his....
Price is not the only determinent of whether something sells or not....and giving a dumbass a tax break because he supplies cheap shit is not a sound economic policy....
If you are sincere about balancing the budget and changing the way this country is governed Rational then put it ALL on the table...
Its not a poker game....its the future of this country at stake...
So, either get all in or don't play.
The days of sacred cows are over....
Besides conservatives love to talk the talk about smaller government and lower taxes and even yourself acknowledge that they spend like crazy and let the government grow...
Howdy from the Ranch!
This goddamn posting Sir is so goddamn good, it has actually left me speechless as far as my opinion and input is concerned!
Another word for your reader's .... When I am not fucking those corporate bastard's that would rather be fucking me, I am reading "Truth 1012" .... and I am an equal opportunity "fucker" I fuck em all ... left right, and in between, you can say it's part of my "Stimulus Plan", for long overdue "equality and fairness" :)
All caca aside Sir .... this is really frank and to the point, folk's like you are what make's me actually have hope in America!
Thanx ...........
Sorry ya'll ... I meant "Truth 101" not "Truth 1012" ... Please forgive me ... I'm 54 year's old (today actually) have an 8th grade education ... and a redneck SOB who live's in Hell,Texas! :)
Happy birthday Ranch Chimp....
That Ranch Chimp is a wise mother f%%ker!
I think TAO had it in his explanations, but I think want and need that are the parents of demand.
TAO has done a good job convincing his customers they need the quality and look of of Turner Original T's better than his inferior competitor.
I wear Turner Originals. I recommend them to my friends. You need custom t shirts this good my friends!
Tao,
"The idea that tax cuts are cheaper because the government can never give out more than it takes in is wrong..."
what does your response have to do with whether or not one or the other costs the taxpayer less?
and yes i do know about net operating loss, Tao.
"This belief that somehow taxes will solve everything is absurd"
i never said that tax cuts were the answer to everything, Tao. i only said it was preferrable to the bailouts being used now. and i said it because they both attempt to serve the same purpose but one results in lesser cost to the taxpayer.
i'll even add one more reason for tax cuts over bailouts. the taxpayer need not worry about his tax dollar being wasted when a company files for bankruptcy after that company has been given bailout money as has already happened.
stop trying to use misleading responses Tao. it doesn't work with me.
happy birthday, ranch chimp. given your age, you probably have a better educational level than most kids now days with a high school diploma.
Tax cuts benefit don't make a bit of difference in the living conditions of the poor and middle class Griper. If the rates are rolled bach 2% say, how's that $12 a week going to make a difference. Maybe guy takes his wife to Taco Bell for lunch? The wealthiest 2% of us will get a big windfall but it won't maen they will spend it on a new flatscreen or a dozen Tshirts. Thet're rich. If they want a Tshirt or flatscreen they would have got it already.
I don't need a tax cut. I need a government that pays it's bills and get's out of debt. Screw that 2% tax cut. Raise my taxes 2% and govern responsible. I pointed out in the original post that it's pandering sissie politicos that refuse to fund programs WE ALL WANT.
You my friend would scream the loudest if a criminal was let out of jail because your state didn't have the money to keep hin incarcerated. Then went out and committed a crime.
Wanna save money and create more over night? Release all the non-violent pot offenders and legalize the damn thing already!! It's a weed for crying out loud.
We could be raking in MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars but no, we'd rather waste it on this stupid failure of a war on pot.
HBW...
You mean smoking pot is illegal?
Who would have guessed? :)
lol yeah, it's practically the national plant.
Keep it illegal and just fine the hell out of the dope smokers would be a good way to make money. I had three or four of my coworkers quit because they loved pot more than ther jobs.
Must have been some good shit brothers.
truth,
"Tax cuts benefit don't make a bit of difference in the living conditions of the poor and middle class Griper. If the rates are rolled bach 2% say, how's that $12 a week going to make a difference. Maybe guy takes his wife to Taco Bell for lunch?"
you're right if this is the assumption. since we both agree that what you assumed the man would do with it is a foolish idea then let's give it a wise idea.
if we assume that the person places that $12 in a savings account, at a very modest interest rate that man will have a very nice little nest egg when he retires too won't he?
Lets see, if our country saved that 2% and considering what we are paying for interest on Treasury Bonds...we would just find ourselves in a bigger hole...
If a 20 year old saved 12 dollars a week every week for 48 years and assuming 4% interest earned and no taxes on these savings...at 68 this retiree would have $225,000...
We didn't. Evidently, we voted for McCain, because that old codger's campaign utterances are suddenly becoming f'ing policy.
Hi Griper,
I'm no economist but I do know we've got a tremendous overcapacity right now.Cars sitting on the docks,computers and TV's and designer clothes in warehouses.
So we have supply, we need demand.
The private sector is not spending.Where is else is demand going to come from? Public sector.Deficit spending.
Yes it would inflate the dollar.We need that because wages and prices are dropping.we need to increase the velocity of money in the economy.
Tao,
thank you.
but in actuality if we use truth's scenario that final number will probably be more than double that figure you said too.
Oso,
when one speaks of supply, quantity is not the only factor, price of that commodity is another factor.
if the price is too high there will be no demand for that commodity. and no amount of government money infused into the economy will create a demand for something that is priced higher than the demand will pay.
there is a glut of houses out there for sale now but lack of demand is resulting in the lower and lower prices of them. and they continue to go down until they reach a point where demand will pay.
Griper,
"quantity is not the only factor, price of that commodity is another factor".
Good point,yes.
regarding housing prices and lack of demand-good example.
What frustrates me are the evident attempts by the Fed to keep rates down and encourage home buying at these still inflated prices. If you are making also the point that home prices still need to drop further to be in line with non-bubble trend I concur.
The rich get richer. Houses will have to be free before an unemployed guy can afford one. But a rich guy could buy plenty in a depressed market.
Good times or bad. The wealthiest always do fine.
The basic trouble with supply side economics, or should I say the contradiction of supply side economics is that its biggest proponents are also folks who want to go on and on about the individual.
I read someplace that the average American has 26 tee shirts in their wardrobe. Now, I make tee shirts so I always ask myself whenever doing something new..."What would be the reason for someone who already owns 26 shirts to buy this one...."
To me, as a business owner, I have never ceased to believe that the consumer drives my business...in other words its all about DEMAND.
When money is cheap and tax credits plentiful lots of people do stupid things...
Look around your own towns and notice the number of new homes built in the last 10 years and look at the number of new apartment buildings built.
Now, you either live in a house or you live in an apartment but you do not live in both. Has the population of your local community grown to consume this excess supply?
Probably not.
Supply side economics stimulated the supply part of capitalism to the point that it exceeded the demand.
Now, credit cards allowed consumers to eat up a lot more of the supply than what is normal for a period of time.
In my business I tell everyone that will listen that these good ol' days are gone forever....
Numerous companies were selling goods at a loss just to cover cash flow and credit lines made that possible.
Once the credit lines were pulled they were out of business because they were not profitable.
Fancy accounting made everything so easy but it covered up the fact that without consumers there is no supply....
Without consumers with money their is no profitability.
The consumers could buy into supply side economics as long as credit was easy and cheap....
Now, the consumer and the demand side of the capitalist economic system are kings again and no one knows how to adapt to the new reality.
Everyone is trying to still hype supply side economics and tax deductions.....
Its time to adapt to the new reality...we have been there and we have done that and that is exactly why we are in the mess we are in today...
Get back to being a capitalistic system of basic supply and demand and quit trying to create an investors utopia...
Investors are not loyal, when the times get tough the investors take their money and go home, OWNERS and WORKERS have to stick it out and crawl back out of the whole while investors move on after they create a mess...
As a business owner I know my employees and my customers are on my side through thick or thin....
Bankers and investors have headed for greener pastures...
Voodoo Economics plain and simple....and its time for this country to quit being hoodwinked by the bullshit and go back to basic capitalism: supply and demand.
truth,
The rich get richer. Houses will have to be free before an unemployed guy can afford one."
you're allowing ideology to form your argument not truth.
be consistent with your argument. and stop with the misleading.
where is that unemployed guy gonna get that $12 from that you mentioned in your previous comment?
and for what purpose would a rich man buy these houses if he cannot become richer from it? and with the price of houses going down, why would he buy it now?
a rich man can only become richer by selling that house to a middle class or poor person.
thus my argument holds.
Tao,
based on how you presented your last argument, you won't get any argument from me. i agree wholeheartedly.
but you are presenting yourself as the supplier only. and that is only half of the equation. you are also the other half of the equation of supply and demand.
your profit/loss sheet along with your balance sheet will show you that.
your sales declares you as the supply side. your expenses declares you as the demand side of the equation.
so, you are making the same mistake in your argument that you accuse others as making.
Oso,
"What frustrates me are the evident attempts by the Fed to keep rates down and encourage home buying at these still inflated prices"
keeping interest rates low is not meant to encourage home buying now at inflated prices.
they are meant to result in a speedier recovery. reason: at the lower rate the balance between supply and demand will meet sooner because the buyer will be able to afford a house sooner than if rates were higher.
remember the housing industry is a commodity that is bought over time most of the time not with cash. so the monthly payment needs to be taken into consideration in regards to affordability. and the lower the rate the lower the monthly payment. the auto industry works in the same manner.
I said get back to supply and demand...
What you and alot of other folks confuse with supply are investors....
I don't have any. So, I do not have to report earnings every quarter and I don't have to spin fancy numbers to beat earnings forecasts.
I know that tax breaks don't create jobs demand does.
You think that because I am a business owner that I should be all for tax breaks but I am not.
I would rather have a government with balanced budget because then that means I do not have to compete with the government in the credit markets.
I also know that if I pay my employees good money they are content, work harder, and promote the company.
Turnover and unhappy employees are expensive.
I am more like Warren Buffet...I know that I can afford to pay more taxes than my employees can.
Logic is logic and fair is fair...and supply side economics is neither.
So cut spending by starting with the business subsidies, the military budget, and agricultural socialism.....then raise taxes.
Reform healthcare or medicare will kill us...or tell your parents they are history because medicare is finished.
But quit playing political games because its time to deal with our problems....
Griper,
Much of the bubble mania was due to more concern with the monthly payment rather than overall price.The amount of debt was of less concern than servicing that debt. As you said,the same way the auto industry works only not the way you meant it; payment not overall price.
So no,the reason for trying to keep down interest rates is not to balance supply and demand.It is an attempt to reinflate the bubble or at least put a floor under the prices and avoid inevitable writedowns.
Why else are even now banks not holding these loans on their portfolio? because they know low rates will not last forever.
My point always has been no tax cut will make a difference in your's or anyone elses standard of living Griper. $12 isn't going to make a bit of difference to me. The poor guy making half what I make gets $6 a week. He ain't gonna put that $6 in an IRA. He ain't gonna buy a bigger house or new shoes. He ain't gonna take a vacation. He probably won't even notice his take home pay that week went from $213.57 to 218.89.
You live in a Reagan fantasy my friend.
Truth you speak the truth my fellow Christian liberal bro!
Reaganomics was a sham. He spoke small govt/fiscal responsibility but spent like a rabid dog.
I am of the rabid dogs overspend school.
There are those who feel rabid dogs exercise fiscal restraint;I am not one of them.
this is my last comment for this thread. it is getting too long and i'm too lazy to scroll down all the way.
Oso,
"So no,the reason for trying to keep down interest rates is not to balance supply and demand."
i never said it was to balance supply and demand.
as for you, truth and Tao,
i have nothing to say. i have already addressed your concerns in previous comments and have no intentions on repeating them.
thank you, i've enjoyed arguing with all of you.
Truth said: My point always has been no tax cut will make a difference in your's or anyone elses standard of living Griper. $12 isn't going to make a bit of difference to me. The poor guy making half what I make gets $6 a week. He ain't gonna put that $6 in an IRA. He ain't gonna buy a bigger house or new shoes. He ain't gonna take a vacation. He probably won't even notice his take home pay that week went from $213.57 to 218.89.
Truth: The tax cut that Obama gave to 95% of Americans equated to approximately $12.00 per week. It didn’t “stimulate” the economy because like you said it doesn’t make a “difference” as no one is going to “go on vacation” or “buy a bigger house” with THAT. Also, they didn’t change the tax table which means 2009 tax returns will reflect that $12/per week reducing the refunds which many people count on.
"Also, they didn’t change the tax table which means 2009 tax returns will reflect that $12/per week reducing the refunds which many people count on."
Yes, Pam and that shows you exactly how FUCKED UP this country really is....
People who pay approximately 11% of their gross income in taxes are now reduced to waiting for their meager refund checks...
Pretty damn sad that we have been reduced to waiting by the mailbox for a pitiful refund check...
Sitting here as we are with the biggest military in the world, the most expensive military in the world...subsidized big business agriculture, subsidized drug manufacturing, and a crumbling infrastructure and an educational system that graduates only 70% of all high school students...oh and a socialized financial system...
Then you got a whole bunch of conservatives who do nothing but sit on their hands and gripe about Obama and bitch about everything he does....and then they call GWB a liberal whenever they have to admit that he was a big reason for all of our problems....
Nope, you voted for him twice and he was no liberal when you voted for him so he ain't no liberal now.
Your support and approval got us in this mess so now get busy and dig us out....
Tao said: Yes, Pam and that shows you exactly how FUCKED UP this country really is....
People who pay approximately 11% of their gross income in taxes are now reduced to waiting for their meager refund checks...
Pretty damn sad that we have been reduced to waiting by the mailbox for a pitiful refund check...
Tao: I’m in 100% agreement! I have a friend that actually deducts MORE than necessary so that she gets a LARGER refund! HUH!? Frankly I think a refund is stupid. Why let the feds have MY money? Calculate your taxes so that you break even and let your money work for YOU!
The ONLY good thing that came out of our financial mess is that more people are beginning to save and are using cash rather than credit. They are getting back to basics which they shouldn’t have gotten away from in the first place, but hind sight is 20/20.
Tao said: Sitting here as we are with the biggest military in the world, the most expensive military in the world...subsidized big business agriculture, subsidized drug manufacturing, and a crumbling infrastructure and an educational system that graduates only 70% of all high school students...oh and a socialized financial system...
THAT reads like a horror story! 70%!! Is that really that stat? My gosh, we are pathetic! I pay $3K a year in school taxes and trust me...I don't live in no mansion! THAT is inexcusable!
Yeah, but that explains why Americans are so stupid...
We sit here in a mess and all the Republicans want to do is sit on their hands and claim that "...this country cannot afford the Democrats proposals..."
Yeah, they are right, BUT the reason we can't is because the same dumbasses talking today spent it all and mismanaged the economy over the last 8 years...
Why didn't anybody ask if we could afford the Iraq War? Or the prescription drug program? Or No child left behind?
Which by the way has left a whole bunch of little kiddies way behind....and we won't even discuss how that centralized our school systems...
Didn't hear a peep out of anyone back then....
What a bunch of stuffed shirt mouthpieces for stupidity we got in Congress....
Yep, and the Republicans sit there quietly just biding their time till 2010 so they can pick up a few more seats....and do what with those extra votes?
The same thing they have done with their majorities over the last 30 years....Nothing except bleed this country dry for the benefit of special interests!
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