Monday, November 23, 2009

LAW AND ORDER TEACHER and TRUTH 101 SPONSOR THE FIRST LEFT/RIGHT HEALTH CARE SYMPOSIUM

At the urging of one of the Right's most respected bloggers, Law and Order Teacher,

http://lawandorderteacher.blogspot.com/, we're having a health care symposium.


TAO has allowed me to post his thoughts at the top. I'll go next in the comment section. LaOT and I hope this can lead to real discussion. Thank you for your participation.


From TAO:





I think we are going about healthcare reform all the wrong way: The reality is we are trying to reform something that is wedged between too many special interests.


Currently the government provides healthcare to the poor, the young, the elderly, and our veterans; and no one has raised one issue with this. Not the communists, not the socialists, not the democrats, not the liberals, not the republicans, and not the conservatives.


Thus, it appears that we all do agree that society has an obligation to provide healthcare to certain members of our society but does that mean we believe that universal healthcare is not a societal obligation?



Since we as a society, through our democratic form of government currently pay over 46% of all medical expenses incurred in a year and as the balance of the expenses are either paid by us as employees, employers, or individuals through our premiums for health insurance and this means we also end up paying for those without insurance who seek medical treatment then the only group left uncovered are those who are recently unemployed, those who elect not to have insurance and have no need for medical treatment, and those who do not have access to health insurance either through their employer or on an individual basis.



The reality is WE pay for all medical treatment provided in this country either directly via our insurance premiums, or indirectly via taxes, via underwriting by insurance carriers, and or via cost pass throughs by healthcare providers.



Thus by default, we have socialized medicine and universal coverage.



If we accepted this reality then we could devise a more realistic and cost reducing healthcare reform package that would be innovative and futuristic without looking like a hodge podge of 'gifts' to special interests like the current package before Congress.



First we would start with a bare bones preventative care package, that would cover just basic office visits, drugs, and outpatient proceedures. This would be offered AT COST to all Americans via for profit insurance carriers with a nominal fee of 3% for administration and profit. If you are young, or living under the poverty level, elderly or disable the government would pay the full costs of this package.



Then private insurance companies could provide a 'step up' or lets call it a 'basics plus' package that would include more services, surgery, and other more expensive services that could be sold as an additional add on package to the basic core plan. This add on package would be priced at cost plus a 10% fee for administration and profit and this would be something an individual could purchase on their own or the government could subsidize the cost of for those who are young, poor, elderly, or our veterans.



From there, the insurance carriers could devise all sorts of healthcare insurance add ons that they could sell at whatever price and with whatever profit margins the market will bear. The government would not subsidize the cost of these for anyone.



This would allow us to provide a basic level of care to all citizens and allow for free market capitalism to create opportunities for more and better healthcare products.



Our military turns away quite a few applicants because of health issues and this would improve the quality of applicants entering the military. By ensuring everyone regular access to healthcare over the course of their whole life we will eventually see a drop in the expenses incurred due to the fact that right now most of our costs go to extreme and emergency care rather than preventative care.



We also need to accept the fact that under the basic or core plan an elderly person would eventually exhaust their insurance coverage, if that is all they had, and treatment would be terminated. But, the reality is that we spend way to much of our GDP on medical expenses incurred in the last two years of an individuals life and unless that individual has bought additional coverage exaclty what is our obligation, as a society, to the elderly when we have so many working age citizens without adequate healthcare?



Pre existing conditions would no longer matter because everyone would always have insurance but maximum policy benefits, or lifetime benefits would still be an issue for those who do not buy an upgrade from the basic policy. To deal with people who would naturally seek insurance upgrades when they became aware of a need then you could make everyone have a policy inforce for six months before any services would be covered.



This is the SWISS PLAN in a nutshell!



It guarantees everyone a basic level of healthcare and subsidizes the cost of this plan when an individual cannot afford the premiums or falls into a certain class of citizen (elderly, poor, young, veterans, or disabled). It takes health insurance decisions away from businesses/employers and makes it a personal/employee decision. It is not socialism because it works within the framework of private, for profit insurance carriers and it allows these carriers to create and market additional products to supplement the basic or core policy. You could see abortion riders, plastic surgery riders, I want to live forever riders, experimental treatment riders, only namebrand drug riders, rehab riders, and all sorts of innovative ideas spring forth.
It basically allows for society to provide a basic level of care as a benefit of citizenship and it also allows for capitalism to create opportunities for companies to develop and profit from meeting certain demands of the marketplace.



It would also limit the existing strain on medicare and medicad that we will see with higher unemployment, greater drug dependency, and the eventual retirement of the baby boomers. It focuses more on adequate coverage, and basic coverage rather than brow beating providers for discounts.



All the way around it is more logical, more cost effective, and more in line with the values that this country holds dear. Oh, and yes there would need to be tort reform and the issue about portability across state lines would no longer be an issue due to the fact that this would be a FEDERAL law.


Posted by TAO of RADICAL PERSPECTIVE http://radicalpersective.blogspot.com/

16 comments:

JoMala "Truth 101" Kelly said...

I have no problem with TAO's views even though I am first and foremost in favor of single payer, universal health insurance.


The plan I've laid out calls for a 4% income tax that we all pay regardless of income. If we all benefit, I believe it is only fair that we all invest. It would also call for an appropriate system of copays. In a nod of the head to the right, I also am aware of those that would try and take advantage of the system. With a system of copays, those that receive more would also pay more.


Single payer also addresses the concerns many have about portability. One insurance policy that goes with you wherever you go in the United States. If you're unemployed you stay on the insurance plan. You'll find work and begin contributing again.


The income tax financing of this plan removes the burden of health insurance expense from business.



Single payer also lessens the administrative load health care providers have currently. One place to bill. No more late or unpaid bills.



The insurance industry will still have a market for suplemental type insurance. Also, most jobs lost through a system transformation will be picked up by the new single payer administration.




The big argument the right tries to use against this is government vs. free market. Every industrialized nation in the world has some form of nationalized health care. Our businesses can't afford the burden and hope to compete with businesses in countries that don't have this expense. It is a proper role of government to aid not just our citizens, but the businesses that provide us jobs with the tools they need to succeed and keep our Nation prosperous.


I look forward to LaOT's views and TAO's response.

TAO said...

First off, a single payer does dramatically reduce the amount of paperwork and who streamline the operations of healthcare providers.

Sadly we also have to accept the fact that bigness is not always best and a single payer system would be HUGE.

We also have to accept the fact that tort reform is necessary but at the same time the medical profession has to acknowledge that they have a bunch of incompetent professionals in their industry and they are the least capable of policing their own.

We all have to acknowledge that there are some very crooked and devious people out there and private insurance is more apt to catch them because they have a greater incentive to do so...it is called the profit incentive.

Government never seems to be able to devise a system that works under the same goals.

The last thing we need to do is turn our healthcare system into something akin to our defense department.

That is why I opt for the Swiss Plan rather than a single payer plan.

Under the Swiss Plan you could layout the basic policy, and simplify the administration of said plan by making all insurance carriers provide the same coverage, follow the same proceedures, and use the same forms.

Then they could do their own thing with the add on packages..

By opting for the Swiss Plan we would be removing the burden of medicad from the states and simplifying everything for everybody.

Sadly this country does not want to solve problems but rather it wants to politicize everything; everyone has issues with our healthcare system but as long as we see solutions as a democratic proposal or a republican proposal and are against things just because of which party proposes it then we are not going to get anywhere.

Law and Order Teacher said...

Truth,
I need to take care of a few home chores so allow today to do so and I'll read some and reply tomorrow. Thanks for allowing me to be involved in this. And thanks to TAO for throwing out the first pitch.


Good day sir.

TAO said...

LAOT,

Not a problem, but the first person that calls me a socialist is going to get clobbered! :)

Law and Order Teacher said...

Truth,
Fair enough. Name-calling is always so thoughtful and scholarly. Take care.

Les Carpenter said...

TAO - I like your presentation. While not really familiar with the Swiss plan the way you describe it makes a lot of sense.

Simplify, retain market basis, even playing field, and allow for add ons to fit individual needs.

Allow insurance providers to compete across state lines and remove lobbyist and special interests, combined with tort reform and it certainly would have my support.

TAO said...

Rational Nation...

Its in place in Switzerland today and it is the most expensive option of all European systems...but it is about 25% cheaper than what our healthcare system currently costs us.

It works very well and it allows for those who have a desire and a means to afford it to have a cadillac plan but it does ensure everyone a plan.

It gives doctors more control over pricing than what they currently have under our system....right now general practitioners have no leverage and specialists can pretty much demand what they want.

That is not the right way to allocate scarse resources...

Its tested and it works....its road ready...and I like the fact that while government subsidizes the purchase of the basic insurance policy for all who cannot afford it it does take government out of the picture otherwize....and imagine how much smaller Health and Human Services and the Veterans Administration would be without all the staff necessary to run our current systems! Lets also not forget the number of state employees that would go from taxpayer employed to working for insurance companies!

One simple plan and this big nasty liberal socialist has lowered taxes, reduced the size of government and brought free markets and tort reform (it might catch a whole lot of people by surprise but lots of liberals think that an old lady who gets 1.8 million dollars out of McDonalds because she got hot coffee on her thighs was a little extreme too!) to healthcare!

WOW!

Anonymous said...

I don't have the time to give all my opinions, so I'll just say that I support TAO's/ Swiss plan completely! We've talked about this a couple times and I like it. I am not an expert by any means but I would really like to hear an argument against this. I think it is more of a compromise between universal and what we have now. You all know how big a fan of compromise I am! :-)

Oh, by the way, I miss you guys!!!!

JoMala "Truth 101" Kelly said...

I like the simplicity of single payer. With the Swiss plan, insurers will have all sorts of add ons and complicated schemes to confuse people.

It still calls for centralized federal regulation. I like that though. Each state having it's own insurance commission and set of rules is cumbersome.

Holte Ender said...

Whatever happens I hope "cost-shifting" is eliminated and that it is replaced by one price for all patients. I went to an orthopedic doctor last month and the bill was $170, after billing my insurance company, the doctor had to eat $70 because Blue Cross only allowed a $100 for his services, a person with no insurance would have been billed for the whole $170. One price for a visit, one price for a broken arm etc. etc., no matter what your insurance status Cost-shifting is just another way screwing the uninsured.

TAO said...

Actually, your doctor agreed in the contract to take $100 for a visit, since he was in your network he had also agreed not to balance bill...

Had he been out of network he most likely could have balanced billed you for the difference.

Your doctor has all sorts of contracts with insurance carriers and all of them stipulate different rates and fees....even within the same company you can have different amounts for the same procedures...

Its a game they all play...

TomCat said...

The Swiss system works, but they make it work by controlling costs.

Law and Order Teacher said...

TAO,
I like some of your plan and some I have questions about. First, I object strenuously about the coverage of various parts of the population at taxpayer expense. I recognize no intrinsic right to health care. So that would register my objection to everyone covered by government care, but the veterans.

Veterans rate care by virtue of their service. Lifetime care is another matter. If someone retires from the military in good standing, I don't have a problem. Likewise, those injured deserve all the care necessary to recover.

Those who served for a time getting lifetime care, is a little tougher. My first impulse is that care is warranted.

My objection about the government care is that it is bankrupt with no prospect of ever digging out of debt. Today's Dems think a selling point is that they promise to root out some $500 billion in fraud to help pay for their plan. Really? Why now?

That's as good a selling point as Obama saying that the Post Office is not functioning properly ($5 billion in debt) and holding up UPS and Fed Ex as examples. What?

How about the government rooting the corruption out now because it is their job to monitor the system.

Just some thoughts, TAO. I'm just saying I don't accept your premise. I'll post about some thoughts on coverage on my site. Thanks.

Good day sir.

TAO said...

Well, LAOT...

Okay, so you are against medicare and medicad, along with only vets who have served 20 years or more receiving lifetime care.

Actually, I can agree with that!

You either have to go one way, covering everyone, or go the opposite way and say we should not cover anyone. But the hodge podge we have today is absurd.

Someone serves 4 years in the military and they can use VA centers? Come on wheres the logic of that?

But lets be truthful, there are 45 million Americans receiving medicare and they are not going to go quietly away to die...

An alternative has to be politically feasible and in todays day and age the elderly and the veterans represent two very large and powerful voting blocs...

They will want others to sacrifice while they demand more for themselves.

My plan actually levels the playing field between the haves (medicad, medicare, and veterans) and THEN you can go in and cut the basic policy which in turn would force these groups to buy up to more coverage....in other words making them pay...

The key thing to remember is that the healthcare townhall fiasco showed us that people are not against big government...nor are they against socialism..but rather they are against someone else getting something because it means they might have to give something up.

Anonymous said...

Guys..
a found a great place to find nice products at wholesale rate at [url=http://50off.reviewazone.com/]discount code[/url]
Have Fun

Anonymous said...

Hi everyone..
a found a great place to find nice products at discounted rate at [url=http://50off.reviewazone.com/]coupons[/url]
Have Fun