If aliens are spying on us, one of the things they must be studying intently is the Republican Party's success at brainwashing people.
Bush left us the largest deficits and the largest expansion of government ever. Yet, the Republican propaganda machine has millions of Americans convinced that the mess he left after 8 years of incompetence is President Obama's fault.
The big discussion on most blogs right now is national health care. I have yet to see anyone not admit that health care and health insurance are too expensive. Everyone agrees that "reform" is needed. But does the right offer any plans? Hell no. All they offer is "No."
Two bloggers on Pamela D. Hart's outstanding blog, Oracular Opinion, said it wasn't their job to offer an alternative. They just didn't like anything Obama did. A chorus of righties joined in.
This not only validates the premise of my post, that the Republicans want no progress. They only want to protect their benefactors. But it also shows the blind loyalty of so many of their sheep. These people are almost conditioned, ala the Manchurian Candidate, to have no ideas or original thoughts. Only to repeat the days talking points relayed to them by the Becks and Limbaughs of talk radio and television. And the number one order from the top is "Just Say No."
This is further evidenced by the lack of ideas the sheep with their signs at town hall meetings are offering. They are programmed to disrupt and be angry. The Republicans are experts at sowing anger and exploiting it.
I do have to give due credit to a few of those on the right who do think for themselves and do offer valid thoughts. When I find them, I add them to my link list. Funny how many of them either support Ron Paul or are sympathetic to Congressman Paul's ideals. Many of the regular right wing society think of Congressman Paul as a kook or a fringe lunatic.
Technology has made possible the instantaneous sharing of thoughts and information regardless of how far apart we are. It would be nice if more rank and file Right wing sheep would shave the wool off their eyes and think for themselves.
32 comments:
Don't knock it, Truth. Being a mindless sheep saves you from having to think. Just react as Rush and Fox tell you to.
It cool just sitting back and watching the show. Some of these guys go nuts over things they have zero control over.
Truth,
I for one will acknowledge and condemn the expansion of government under Bush or any other administration and I have been consistent in my opinion.
I have lost faith in both parties because their interest is in their power and not in ideas and policies that benefit the people.
Far be it for me to defend Rush and Beck, but they have been consistent in their criticism of anyone who expands government.
Our disagreement is about the difference we have in the faith that government has the answers. Government is a train wreck in my opinion and I have very little confidence that it is the answer to almost any problem. Even Obama acknowledged that Fed Ex and UPS are successful businesses. They thrive because of the ineptness of a government run entity.
I know you won't agree, but that's what makes the discussion interesting.
Good day, sir.
My opinion has always been who or what else besides government can affect the changes we need? Show me a business that doesn't employ an army of lobbyists to get government help? Why does Exxon need tax creditsin addition to normal deductions for expenses related to looking for oil? major league sports teams demand huge government help and concessions before locating or keeping a team in a city.
Somebody has to keep the playing field level. Voluntary compliance is a liscense to steal. It's up to government.
Truth, what is the big deal?
You Dems control the White House and both houses of Congress. You've got a filibuster proof Senate and 256 - 178 in the House. Why don't you just pass whatever legislation you want and not worry about the GOP, which is totally out of power?
I'll answer the question; it's because Obama is an incompetent president and the American people are waking up to who they have elected.
The voted the GOP out more than the Dems in. They wanted change, but not a wholesale restructuring of America.
In other words, the Dems overestimated their mandate, and are now paying the price for it.
"Why do you believe healthcare legislation is ruining America?"
"Because Glen Beck said so!"
You highlight the exact problem in today's political climate. With 24 hour news, and the ability to post an opinion no matter how baseless or untrue, and an educational system that does not champion critical thinking, you have a situation where people rely on someone to be their voice. It's just as bad from the left too. However, the angry right also have a historical tendency to take the law into their own hands. Pair that with irrational craziness and you have a potential for a dangerous situation. Or at best, a complete lack of political discourse. The result, no matter how much "change we can believe" there is, nothing gets done. again...
Tom: I answered your question awhile back with the "Everybody Wants to Rule The World" post.
Why Obama and the Democratic leadership just doesn't go ahead and ram a good plan through is beyond me. They're all experienced politicians. They know what "the loyal opposition's" job is. To disrupt and do whateverit can to obsruct. No use being surprised or offended. I wish the Democrats would ahve done more loyal oppositioning when Bush was President.
Does seem more like a battle of zingers than an exchange of ideas that put the Nation's interests first TL. Thanks for the observation.
Truth,
If politicians didn't listen to lobbyists they wouldn't be there. Money talks to politicians. Their reelection depends on money and they dance to the tune.
Government is not a neutral arbiter, they are on the money teat. I agree that businesses will get what they can if a government entity offers it.
That's the problem when government entities get into business and they try to outbid each other. Government should never be in the business of trying to outdo capitalists.
One governmental entity stealing business from another is at the root of the problem. Business decisions should be made in relation to business conditions by entrepeneurs, not government.
When a governmental entity tries to outbid another with various incentives it is an unfair advantage because they are using a taxpayer money to win the bid. It has skewered the whole system.
Government is not a neutral arbiter period. This isn't about health care, it's about power. They in the government know better than us. When government becomes too powerful we lose as a people.
I respect your feeling that government levels the playing field, but they don't. It is a bidding system. Government does nothing more that outbid one another.
Now that Americans have been reading this bill, however many there are, they are having a lot to say. I read a lot of it and I'm really overwhelmed by the amount of information. This is a monstrosity that needs some light shed on it. A thousand+ pages, really?
I realize I'm not too intelligent according to the Dem leadership and I'm susceptible to misconceptions, but geez this is a bill that is really without an explanation.
As the humorist Dave Berry said,
"As Americans we must always remember that we have a common enemy, an enemy that is powerful, dangerous and relentless, I refer of course to the federal government."
I agree.
Good day, sir.
Truth: If Obama and the Dems ram this bill through, they know they will have dire consequenses. There is 80% (I think that's the going stat even though I hate stats)of the country that is not in favor of this bill as it stands. Obama can't be that arrogant that he thinks ramming it through would be beneficial to the country or to HIS re-election. I think he thinks his new web-site and his Town Halls will help him sway people to his side. Although I don't personally believe that. Until people get REAL answers to their legit questions and this bill is written so there isn't so much misinterrpretaion, the people aren't going to like or accept it.
I won't dispute your 80% figure because I'm among them Pamela.
And bills are long because there is alot of stuff they have to cover. Plus, once the lobbyists and committees and hearings are held, they get even longer.
But if they aren't then here comes Lord knows how many screaming what about this and that.
I can see your point LAOT. Perhaps my view of governemtn is idealistic considering it's run by human beings with all their foibles. In the end I think most agree we have a problem with the way our health care system is paid for. Who's payin for whom. What's being paid for. Who's covered. Public aid recipients and illegal aliens flooding emergency rooms and clinics.
I stand by the plan I've submitted. Some of the ideas Pamela and Jennifer expoused I admit may well make it better and palatable to more Americans. I even saw what I thought were sane ideas posted by one of the Righties on Pamelas fine blog that made sense. I don't think anyone of rational mind would care if a bill was a thousand pages if it was full of things that made ours a better nation with not just the best health care, but also the best delivery of health care in the world.
Ah, Im always right, your buddy bluepitbull is a daily reader of this blog and posts quite freguently....
The American Loving blogger "I'm Always Right" possesses quite possible the most oxymoronic moniker ever.
But so you know, I'd rather have one comment from someone like TAO, Law and Order Teacher, Shaw or Ton the Redhunter, even when they disagree with me, than a hundred from you Sister.
You respect my views, I will respect yours and thump anyone who treats you poorly.
101: Wait, what if I'm sympatheitc to Ron Paul's ideas AND I think he's a kook?
But to a point you made in the comments:
Somebody has to keep the playing field level. Voluntary compliance is a liscense to steal. It's up to government.
If the government is in the business of leveling the playing field ONLY (as in securing individual rights), I can actually agree with you. But since most of the moves now are extensions of the government's power over the individual, a chorus of NO's is better than nothing.
ImAlwaysaRunonSentence: I think about coming here more than twice. I actually think about it any day I look through my blogroll. And just because somebody's obscenely wrong doesn't mean they're not entertaining, and even informative.
Patrick makes rare appearances outside his own Sane Political Discourse. I always consider it a treat when he stops by. His right wing elitism only adds to his charm.
I've actually been rather sympathetic with the protesters in spirit, if not in tone. There is plenty to be mad about.
I've written before that the majority of Republicans marched in lockstep behind George W. Bush for 8 years. One of the places I would make an exception is in health care. Bush's expansion of Medicare is one area where I noticed he faced significant resistance among people who otherwise strongly supported him. In light of that, I think it should be expected that there has been massive resistance against a program far more ambitious than Bush's.
However, it is worth noting that Republicans do a good job of advocating saner economic ideas when they're out of power. Talk about indebting future generations was remarkably quiet even a year ago. Truth, since you mention Ron Paul (and a little bit of non-name--dropping), it should be shared that his son Rand recently said that Republicans "have lost our believability as fiscal conservatives." That's not wrong.
I don't have much sympathy with the protesters, at least the ones that are on TV Carl. Thya all are programed to say the same things. They all say socialism and return following the Constitution. It was frsh when Ron Paul reminded us to do that. It's turned into a meaningless talking point. This argument has been going on for 200 years. The expanding of the federal government. What other entity could establish a central bank. See to the defense of the Nation. Provide the regulation and enforcement necessary to keep society civil.
Government is like guns in the sense that it's people that misuse them who are the enemy. Government and guns used responsibly can be great forces for good.
"I don't think anyone of rational mind would care if a bill was a thousand pages if it was full of things that made ours a better nation with not just the best health care, but also the best delivery of health care in the world."
I think that you are 100% right! It's not the amount of pages that we have a problem with, if it had the right solutions than it would be well worth it.
As far as the right wing talking points, I just can't do it. I'd rather research and listen and debate till I'm blue in the face than sit and listen to Rush/Beck. I think most of us here, don't have any interest in the "talking Points" that some others may use. Experience and education are too important in politics and I think we are all aware of it!
As far as not coming here, I'm always right.....Truth has always treated me with the utmost respect and I return in kind. You don't always have to agree with someone to have civil discussions and debates. Respect goes BOTH ways.
Truth,
In the spirit of concession, I love your analogy that government is like guns and the misuse of same. Well done. You are absolutely right.
I wish that I felt that government was a reasonable arbiter. I don't trust government and I doubt that I ever will. The foibles, as you so aptly stated are hard to overcome. Having said that there are some things government does well, national defense being one.
But really, subtlety is not the military's strength. The absolute power of the military is uncompromised. Government is very good at exercising ultimate power. But it is really worthless at privacy.
Health care is a subject that requires more than the "one size fits all" mentality of government. Government is short on individualism. My question is "How does a government monolith understand the privacy of individual medical problems.?"
The assembly line of world wars does not translate well to personal medical problems. I will talk to my personal physician of over 20 years, long before a government representative.
Government is way too impersonal to handle something as subtle as health care. This is a good discussion and it is needed. Thank you.
Good day, sir.
e fight the impersonal aspect with big business as well. The most recent episode of passengers being kept on the plane in Minnesota because as the airline said, the screeners weren't coming back till 6am. THings like this are why I embraced term limits for elected officials. You're out of the mainstream too long and allow nonsense like this to happen. In the case of government, long term elected officials become so insulated there is no way they can appreciate the private sector's situation. The long time, set in their ways, bureaucrats have the the eyes and ears of the long term elected instead of those they are supposed to serve.
It's too bad we need to boot guys out of office in essence, just so we can get decent and respectful service.
The Constitution is a document that partisans invoke when it's convenient. It's not as though Ron Paul gave them a talking point - Republicans talk about the Constitution, just as the Democrats were, when they're out of power. While I'm pleased to hear rank-and-file Republicans talking about the Constitution again, I'm just hoping they'll remember all these things they're saying and doing when (if?) Republicans return to the majority. If not, this will all be a colossal waste of time and effort.
Yes, I voted for Obama. And I regret every minute of it.
He (Obama) is destroying our sovereignty piece by piece, all at the hands of his puppet masters.
I'm not going to join the club that outright hates everyone, but I do believe that he's (Obama)ruining this country.
I ain't gonna sugar coat it, I don't like him and anyone who voted him in and still supports him, should be rethinking about that.
You need to relax and pour yourself a stiff one buddy. You all need to relax.
DiscipleDOC wrote:
He (Obama) is destroying our sovereignty piece by piece, all at the hands of his puppet masters.
It oh so easy to write something like you did in the above quote. Let's see you back that statement up with a solid example of how President Obama is "destroying our sovereignty."
If you can't back that statement up with evidence and links to how this destruction of the US's sovereignty is being done by Mr. Obama, then all you've done is come here and shouted "FIRE" in a theater. IOW, you're a rabble rouser just for the sake of inciting people to fear and incoherence.
Anyone with half a brain can do that.
He's a lonely, deluded fool Shaw. I just hope this one has enough self esteem to not delete his comment when it gets exposed for the crap it is.
The righties have been coming to my blog, complaining about what I chose to blog about, then deleting their own comments [but I have ultimate control of that, and I reinstate their little anit-PE rants.]
Their newest ploy is that a few of the angrier bullies have ordered them to stop commenting at my blog and at yours.
I pointed out to them the irony of it all, by reminding them of how they bellowed at the top of their mighty and easily incited lungs, that President Obama was a DICTATOR!!!!!!
President Obama is, in their irony depleted brains, ruining their country by telling people what to do!!!!!!
And then they go to everyone's blog and TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO .
It is enormously entertaining to observe how un-self-aware they all are.
Dear TRUTH, "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
If the right leaning bloggers I have on my link list decided to stop visiting here I would be very disapponted Shaw. If the ones that like to just post the usual "Obama is a socialist America hater" nonsense post, it diminishes the right leaners that display class. A grasp of issues and the capablity to explain and defend their positions.
In the end, bloggers like IAR,BPB and IAGNB do more disservice to the conservative cause than they will ever do good.
I don't demean the thoughtful conservatives who contribute to the discussion.
The ones that came to my blog and posted only "I hate Obama" type comments contributed nothing to the discussions, so I don't miss them one iota.
You've rightly named the trouble makers, and AFAIC, good riddance.
The Pamela Harts, Jennifers, Jameses, etc., are always welcome.
can I come back Mr. Truth? Nothing like a good blog. A few Camels and a couple stiff ones.
Truth, here is the same post as the one at American Nihilist, the one that quotes you. There are a few modifications to the original. Please join the conversation.
Truth - I agree with Law and Order Teacher here, both parties 'stink' and have lost sight of 'we the people. Hopefully you realize that the left has many knuckleheads in their midst as well, frankly it is not an ideological issue. Also, I have been offering great ideas on health care reform for months over at LCR, long before this was the running issue of the day.
BTW as well, I am a member of the 'kook' Ron Paul society.
Good post.
LCR: I read all your posts. When I don't leave a comment it usually means I know there is nothing I can add to it. Pro or con. Your blog is a good read and should be on everyone's link list. Thanks for your visit.
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